Hide No More

What if the version of you that shrinks is both timid and brilliant?

In this retreat coaching session, we sit with Brian Perry, an authentic communication coach and singer-songwriter, as his body remembers a childhood rule: being seen is dangerous. 

What unfolds is a vivid map of survival, from bullying to family dynamics, and the subtle ways a protector part can keep you safe while also keeping you small.

A kid who learned that the most dangerous thing was to be seen. A man who believed he was meant to be a priest. A body that still knows how to make itself smaller, even at six foot six. 

And underneath all of it — a version of Brian that people feel in the room before he says a word.

This episode is a window into real, embodied coaching work. A living exploration into what gets held back, what it costs, and what becomes possible when you stop hiding behind the lockers.

As you listen, put yourself in his shoes. Ask yourself the questions I'm asking him. Notice what stirs.

TAKEAWAYS

1. The survival strategies that kept us safe as kids don't disappear at 53 — they go underground and keep running the show. Of course they do. They worked.
2. Courageous cowering isn't weakness. It's a smart adaptation that held something precious until the danger passed. Honoring it is the first step to releasing it.
3. Invisibility as a survival strategy and neurodivergence interact in particular ways — the "too much and never enough" experience can make staying small feel like the only safe option.
4. Strength doesn't come despite the survival years. It comes because of them.
5. You can't think your way into a new version of yourself. You have to feel the posture and inhabit the body of the leader you’re becoming. 

Transcript

The coaching begins: the you that's been held back

Lauri 0:00

Welcome back to Untamed Leader. Today I'm sharing another glimpse inside the Untamed Leader Collective and the Untamed Leader Spring Retreat, embody your vision. Brian Perry, an authentic communication coach, singer-songwriter, and one of the most genuinely present listeners I know is back. You've heard him in conversation before. This time, he stepped into the retreat circle and let himself be coached. What unfolded was something neither of us planned. It always is. As you listen, I invite you to put yourself in his shoes. Ask yourself the questions I'm asking him, and notice what stirs. At one point, Brian, when you were talking, you said there was a you that you knew you had been holding back. Sorry. Like you were not as fully expressed as not as fully radiant, not as fully expressed as you could be. What is the shape, the physicality, the habitual embodiment of the you that is held back or was held back? It might even be like you gotta you gotta go back two days or five days or two weeks to really get there.

Brian 1:34

Hmm.

The courageous cowering — a kid who learned to be invisible

Brian 1:35

Well, that's interesting. Um I'm watching or re-watching a movie right now. A Ryan Reynolds film, um, where he travels in time and encounters his younger self. And he encounters his younger self as he's getting bullied and uh I was bullied a lot growing up, and a lot of the bullying came from my refusal to fight a fight that wasn't a fight. You know. Um so the answer to your question is that that the physical presence for me is that kid who was simultaneously sort of courageous and cowering, who got really good at trying to be invisible as a survival mechanism that the most dangerous thing was to be seen. Because if the bullies could see you, they were coming. Yeah, and so yeah, I hadn't thought about that. It's like I'm on a retreat or something, and there's some valuable thoughts. I hadn't thought about that, but it's true. It's it's this part of me that that it's sort of like from an eye uh from an internal family systems point of view, it's just this part of me that I can see it was a smart survival technique. Yeah, it saved me a lot of beatings, yeah. And a lot of embarrassment.

Lauri 3:34

Yeah.

Brian 3:35

Um it's astonishing that at 53, almost 54, it's still in there going. Hide behind the lockers. You know. Um yeah, thank you.

Gratitude for the survival strategy that kept us alive

Lauri 3:54

Yeah, it it is and it's not astonishing.

Brian 3:58

Yeah.

Lauri 3:58

I am I for one am very grateful that this courageous cowering kept you alive, kept you safe.

Brian 4:08

Same.

Lauri 4:11

We wouldn't know you if it hadn't. I wouldn't know you.

Brian 4:18

That's true. You know, in and Laurie, that extended in it was the same, I had to be that person in my home, too. You know, my I go without getting into all that just because it's not about me. But but the but the the it's you know, that was the dynamic in my family. So the whole dynamic I learned was be as make sure you take it to you the only way you should be visible is if you're protecting taking care of someone so that they're happy. Because then they won't hurt you.

Lauri 4:53

Yeah.

Brian 4:54

Um, otherwise

Six foot six and a musician — no confusion there

Brian 4:55

be invisible.

Lauri 4:57

Yeah.

Brian 4:59

And then I became six foot six and a musician.

Lauri 5:04

Yeah. No confusion there. Yeah. And one of the other things that struck me in what you said was it was the part of you that refused to fight. And the beauty of nonviolence, peace, yeah, is also mixed in with like that's the courage, the cowering, courageous.

Brian 5:37

Yeah.

The part that refused to fight — and what it's called to now

Lauri 5:40

And it also struck me from what I know about you, I make up that part of what you're called to now is a version of fight. So it's like, great job, nonviolent, keeping safe. Now let's also add the possibility for the energy and the forward of fight or advocate fully expressed.

Brian 6:13

Yes. It's, may I interject?

Everything is a call to love: turn the cheek, turn the tables

Brian 6:18

It's it's as you also know about me, I very much believed for a long time that I was going to be a Catholic priest. And I remember the courageous part for me, I had the sense when I was, particularly when I was being bullied, that I could take the guys. But that that wasn't the path. That that the path was to peace. And I think that my journey through the years has continued to be trying to discern something that I continue to resonate with from the faith of my youth, which was that everything is a call to love. Sometimes that love expresses itself as forgive them for they know not what they do and turn the other cheek. And sometimes that love expresses itself as turn the tables in the temple and not in my father's house. And I think that I'm increasingly called to inhabit unapologetically that that energy. That's what that's what's resonating with me about what you're saying.

Lauri 7:39

I would

Embodying the cowering — what it looks like, what it costs

Lauri 7:40

love to ask you to take on the shape of the courageous, cowering, keep you safe 10 to 15%.

Brian 7:53

I don't know what that means. How how do I do that in the context of our conversation?

Lauri 7:59

Um, well, if you feel comfortable doing like fully expressed cowering, like I'll do it. Or you can do fully expressed cowering. It's to tap into a hint of it.

Brian 8:17

Hmm. It's a there's a there's a you can't I'm wearing black, so it's harder to see, but for me, there's there's this there's this kind of a concaving, there's this sort of rounding. Um honestly that I often asseminate I associate with feminine because I see uh a lot of women hide like this because they feel uncomfortable. My perception, and I've known some people that feel uncomfortable with their chest, and so they don't expand shoulders back fully. And it there's this, there was that sort of need to be smaller, literally be smaller.

Lauri 9:03

Yeah. So if there's just a little hint of it.

Brian 9:07

Yeah.

Lauri 9:11

And then what has it been taking care of for you since then? And what has it been costing you?

Brian 9:25

What it's been taking care of is it has kept me from some harm many times over. What's more, it's often set me up sometimes for success.

Lauri 9:45

Yeah.

Brian 9:46

Because expectations are lowered. Because I'm small until I'm not. Yeah. Um,

The cost of the survival strategy

Brian 9:59

what it's kept me from on some level has long felt egoic. Like it's kept me from really radiating, you know, and you know in that sort of egoic kind of way. But in the ways that have become intolerable for me, and terrifying for me, as I see mortality in a way I didn't used to even just a few years ago. 50's no joke. Um it it's it's uh it's kept me from purpose in a way that well the word that comes up for me is embarrasses me. That I feel ashamed of. And I don't mean that in the sense that I'm supposed to be any kind of somebody in some special place in the world, but more that I have a role to play.

Lauri 11:13

Mm-hmm.

Brian 11:14

And he can't play it from the corner. At least I can't play my role from the corner.

Lauri 11:19

Yeah.

Brian 11:21

Um, so I think that answered.

Lauri 11:23

Go

Of course you still have it at 53 — it's been protective

Lauri 11:24

ahead and shake it off now and come back to Brian. The how do I still have this at 53? 53?

Brian 11:36

53 until July.

Lauri 11:39

How do I still have this? Feels like of course you do.

Brian 11:43

Yeah. Very much.

Lauri 11:48

Yeah.

Brian 11:49

It's been protective.

Lauri 11:51

Yeah. It's masterful at what it does.

Brian 11:54

And it interacts, it interacts, it interacts spectacularly with um what I now call and know to be neurodivergence, because my neurodivergence has always expressed itself in a way that's feels like too much and never enough. So if you know sooner or later the things that people might eventually go, wow, that's amazing. Sooner or later they're gonna be like, duh, it's a little too much. You know, better to just stay small.

Lauri 12:22

Mm-hmm.

Brian 12:23

Yeah, better to just keep with the coward.

Lauri 12:27

Yeah. Yep, for a little bit more. We're kind of like going back to it. Bring it. Love it. We're gonna do here for it. Um what would this part this shaping, this habit the courageous coward physicality want or need to hear to feel acknowledged.

Brian 13:05

Well, uh first reaction, the thing that came up just for to be keep our keep us moving. I I I feel like the the um the first thing that came up for me wasn't that it was that uh it feels acknowledged. What it feels is untrusting. Like it's it's it's it's its perspective is I know you see me, but you haven't proven to me that you can be without me. You haven't proven to me that I'm wrong. And there's and there's an element of that part of me that's going, yeah, okay, you can about how that you got more, but how's that ever worked out for you? Me? I've got I've kept you alive.

Lauri 14:00

Mm-hmm.

Brian 14:01

What's that guy ever done for you?

Lauri 14:04

Mm-hmm. You know, um I am curious, man who was going to be a priest.

Brian 14:15

Yeah.

What this part needs: the word faith

Lauri 14:19

I was gonna ask you, what does this part need to trust? What does this part need to take a risk? And then the word faith popped into my head.

Brian 14:29

That's it. That's it. I mean, because that what the thing is, you know what's happening in the back of my mind as you're saying this? And I'm like, ask me about the other one.

Lauri 14:41

Yeah.

Brian 14:41

Ask me about the other one. Because like that, the the these the two that were sort of in my mind, sort of the weaker ones.

Lauri 14:47

Mm-hmm.

Brian 14:49

They've been sort of consumed, assumed, they've been they've been brought in.

Lauri 14:56

Yeah.

Brian 14:56

And

Secret weapons and the panther

Brian 14:57

they're like secret weapons now for my version of the Panther.

Lauri 15:03

Yeah.

Brian 15:03

Which feels like what is your version of the Panther? Well, the I I don't have a specific one nailed down, but it's the images were floating through my mind. Like I've just started watching an old show called Blacklist. Um, I'm thinking of like also the George Clooney in like the oceans series. It's these figures that have this suaveness to them that just seem to move through the world with ease, and they know where they know things you don't know. Like at the moment you think they're beat is when the moment they're about to win.

Lauri 15:41

Mm-hmm.

Brian 15:43

So it's it's it's it's this it's this um like there was an element there there was a song that popped in my head earlier, too, when you were talking about this and about the weakness. This is um such aggressive imagery coming up. But there's a song from Metallica that that um on their some kind of monster record, which is the only record of theirs that I ever really meaningfully got into. But it but it's they they got the the main line in the song is shoot me again, I ain't dead yet. And and it's and it's this challenge. And it's it and they go into like the main all the shots um I I take, I spit back at you. You know, it's this sense of you can't like that that panther, the way I see that moving is it's like the same thing that the cat's afraid of, the panther's fueled by.

Lauri 16:38

What

The physicality of shoot me again, I ain't dead yet

Lauri 16:39

is the physicality of the like shoot me again, I ain't dead yet version of Brian Perry?

Brian 16:46

He's just then you just saw he he's solid, he's poised, he's that he's a presence in a room that doesn't stand, he's not flashy, but he's the presence in the room that people just feel it shift. And and that's what that's what resonated with about those characters, is they have this this quiet confidence that's you know, somebody's like, well, when is such and such gonna happen? It's already done. You know, that's it's this it's peaceful and authoritative and confident in a way that frankly he learned to be while he was because of the weakness ones, because of the cowering, because of the another one we we we didn't get to, but that was but that was the the the rule follower because of the way those beings that the scrawny cat were so externally guarded, he learned his invincibility and he learned how to work the system, if you will, in a way that now he's just a rock in it.

Coming into the body — posture, the smirk, the shift in the room

Lauri 18:08

And will you come into your body and feel that for yourself? Feel how it's different from rule follower, rule breaker, cowering, courageous one.

Brian 18:33

Yeah, I feel it.

Lauri 18:36

What do you where do you notice differences?

Brian 18:42

My posture changes. Like when I'm in that I can't slouch. And I feel loose, and really noticeably I feel an immovable smirk. Like I just I can't not. Like this that's part of me that's just like, oh, you don't know. Here comes, you know, and it's just it it's uh and I've and I know this person. I've inhabited this person, you know. I think in some ways this is a person you and I have in common in our in our performance spaces that I feel that strength in those spaces where I'm just like, oh yeah. Yeah, I got this. Yeah, don't worry, everybody, I got this. We're good. You know, so yeah, it's it's it's a it's a posture, first and foremost, and and a pliability, a flexibility, and um uh a sort of a gracefulness that I associate with some of those characters again, that they have they have a sort of profound, graceful way of being in the world.

The life work: notice when you're already in it

Lauri 20:07

So I have a life work. Bring it. You could say yes, no, or counteroffer. Notice when you're catching yourself in cowering courageous one, and notice when you're already in this, Brian. Like the bullets, the the shots haven't killed me yet. I got this. I got this. And if that how does that feel?

Brian 20:47

Good. I want more of that.

Lauri 20:49

Awesome.

Brian 20:50

So that's so that's that's that's that is when I am at my best. That is when I I lift the most boats.

Lauri 20:59

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Brian, like all of us, lifts the most boats when he allows himself to be the presence in the room that people feel before he says a word. You have your very own one in eight billion version of that kind of presence. Notice when you're already in it. Notice when you're not. And then invite your body to be in it more often. That's the life work. See you back here next time.