Tending Your Inner Fire: A Live Coaching Moment

What does untaming look like and how do we do it? This is a real coaching session from the Untamed Leader Spring Retreat: Embody Your Vision — unscripted, embodied, and alive.

Dana is stepping into a new chapter: retiring from her career, feeling called to “ocean” more, and finding out what living with more presence, intention, and impact feels like in her body. What you’ll witness is the untaming process in real time: two trees, two ways of being, and the question underneath it all.

As you listen, put yourself in Dana’s shoes. Ask yourself the same questions. Notice what comes up in your own body. This conversation isn’t just hers, it’s yours too.

In this episode:

• The difference between fire under your ass and fire in your heart
• The safety question underneath many untaming decisions
• How frequency, not status, guides the untamed leader

If you’ve ever felt the pull between the life that looks right and the one that feels true — this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways

1. There’s a difference between fire under your ass and fire in your heart. One burns you out. The other fuels you forward.
2. Confirming in the “tree farm” gives you credibility, standing, and external validation. It can also cost you yourself. 
3. Either/or thinking is usually a lie. When you trust yourself new options become clear and you can go anywhere.
4. External validation and inner calling pull in opposite directions. Knowing which one is driving your decisions changes everything.
5. One important question lurking underneath untaming moments: “Is it safe to be who I actually am?”
6. When you’re present, you’re safe. Presence is not a condition of the environment, it’s something you carry.
7. Leadership is a landscape, not a ladder. There is no top tree. There is only your tree.
8. Untamed Leaders make decisions by frequency, not by status or prestige. You can feel the difference in your body.a

Soul Sucker Quiz

Take the Soul Sucker Quiz to learn which Soul Sucker screams the loudest in your mind so you can release them from being in charge and set your voice free!

https://voice-matters.com/soul-sucker-quiz/

Transcript

00:00 Lauri 
Hello and welcome back to Untamed Leader. Today you're getting a special treat — a real live coaching moment from the Untamed Leader Spring Retreat: Embody Your Vision. The client, Dana, is starting a new chapter, stepping back from her career and feeling called towards something more alive, more intentional — something she's been calling "oceaning" — living with more presence and impact, and feeling what that actually means in her body and her energy, not just her head. As you listen to the coaching, put yourself in her shoes. Ask yourself the questions I'm asking her. This is what untaming looks like and feels like from the inside. Hi, Dana. We are going to dive into you first today.

00:54 Dana 
It was really interesting. I've been to some leadership retreats lately that were based — there was a lot of indigenous wisdom as part of it — and they keep an actual fire 24 hours a day the whole time, and they ask people to tend the fire. And I'm like, oh, I've never tended a fire. And I got real nervous, like they were going to pick me as one of the fire tenders. And I was like, don't pick me.

So that's just interesting about my relationship with fire. What just spontaneously came up was that I want to hold the fire. And what also visually came up was this sort of having a passion and energy in my heart about what matters to me, and that it is burning — not in a burn-me-up kind of way, but just giving me energy. So it's like I'm holding space for this passion and aliveness and playfulness that I want in my life.

Also, something about in my past, when I was like my high-achieving, fast-walker self — I always felt like the fire was under my ass. Like, there is a fire and I've got to keep going. And so this is different, to feel the fire inside of me fueling me, not burning me up. So that all came up with the fire, which I really appreciated.

There also was something about the book Women Who Run with the Wolves. There's a story in that book about when we let the fire go out of our life and how that feels, and this whole story about we need the fire in our lives. So that came up to me too.

Lauri, I really appreciate what you said — the difference between effort and energy — because that feels like a big deal for me right now. I'm getting opportunities to do new things and I'm resisting. I'll even sign up for them and then be like, what did I do that for? And I'm not even signing up anymore from a pleasing place — wanting to please somebody. I've sort of gotten over that to some extent. It used to come from there, it doesn't anymore. I don't feel like I have anything to prove. I don't think I need to please anybody at this age and stage.

But it's more like, oh yeah, that sounds fun — and then, holy shit, what was I thinking? And I'm trying to discern the difference between effort and energy. There's something going on where initially, when an opportunity came my way, I felt the energy of what it could be. And then at some point, when it's actually coming closer, it just feels like effort. So I'm trying to discern — what of that is actually it wasn't the thing I should have said yes to, and there truly isn't energy there? And what is me telling stories? The old story would go something like: if I sign up for something as my high-achieving, fast-walking self, anything I do takes a lot of effort, it has to be perfect, I have to sacrifice, or else it's not good. It has to be hard. And so I'm trying to discern — was this thing meant for me, and now I'm letting the stories get in the way? Or was it really never meant for me to begin with? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

The physicality thing has been super helpful for me. I really, really resonate with that. And my old physicality would feel like a tree farm where I'm expected to grow straight and tall and keep pace with everybody else. And I'm always like, am I keeping up? Am I keeping up? And there's measurements and there's expectation and there's performance, and there's a lot of effort, and I'm being managed — by others and by myself — really clearly as a tree farm.

And then the other one is like, who knew a tree could grow out on rocks like that with hardly any soil? And they look so playful. So that was the other thing coming up.

05:42 Lauri 
I love it. I'm very excited to explore your new calling — new, I mean, it's been around for six years, something has been calling you. And it feels really powerful to be looking at oceaning from the lens of: you're holding the fire, you're tending the fire. And it's not supposed to feel like, in the past, your relationship with fire was someone lit a fire under your ass — which when you did it, it looked like that knocks you out of yourself energetically.

And when you were gesturing, it was like when someone else or you light a fire under your ass, you energetically leap forward out of your body. That's what it looked like. And yes, the universe is sending you intuitive hits and there's this new calling — but it's not supposed to feel like the universe lit a fire under your ass and you're supposed to go. It feels like now you've got an energetic and visceral understanding that this fire is within your own heart, and you're moving forward with the calling.

I'm very curious about the discernment when you're making decisions. When you're sitting there making a decision and you want to be in the embodiment of the you that is walking this vision — how does that go?

You started talking about how you used to feel like a tree in a tree farm. And then there's also the who-knew-trees-could-grow-in-rocks, so-playful other form. Close your eyes and imagine you're almost breathing in the energy that is that tree before you fully put it on — like you're starting to play with it. What does it do to your breath, your energy?

08:03 Dana 
My breath feels deep and easy. And there is like — I wanted to just start swaying. There is just this natural following the energy of movement. And something about dancing to your own movement. It's not regimented. There's something just about that — like you're finding your own rhythm. You're paying attention to source and finding your own rhythm. There's something about that.

08:55 Lauri 
And now, as hard as it might be, let that go for a moment.

09:00 Dana 
Okay.

09:02 Lauri 
That was so juicy — I was like, oh my God, I almost want to go there. I don't want to make you take on the old if you're truly ready to be like, I've said all I want to say about this one, I've felt all I want to feel. But I feel like let's have you put on the hint of the old — the tree in the tree farm — and see what is revealed. And then if it's like, nope, we're done, let's go to the other one, we will do that.

09:33 Dana 
I like that.

09:35 Lauri 
So close your eyes. You know tree farm. Put on the hint — like 10% of the tree farm old habit of Dana. What shape — and you can narrate for us as you're feeling your way into it — what shape does it take in your body?

10:04 Dana 
It feels rigid. It's like straight up and down, and I'm sort of leaning forward because there's an effort to keep up, to keep performing.

10:19 Lauri 
What do you notice about your breath?

10:23 Dana 
It's shallower. I'm holding my breath and having to remember to breathe. As I strain to make sure that I'm keeping up with the other trees and doing what I'm supposed to be doing — I forget to breathe and I've got to remember to breathe. But when I do, it's still sort of shallow. And there's some kind of energy that I get from keeping up. I feel like an energy that I'm getting from it that on the surface feels like it's feeding me — like, oh okay, I'm keeping up, I'm keeping up. But I also can tell it's depleting. It's burning me up too. It's burning me out. In contrast to the other way, I can feel that there's a depletion happening with this energy that I'm getting from keeping up.

11:31 Lauri 
So that's already some of what it's taken care of — what have been the gifts in it? It provides that kind of energy. But the cost...

11:44 Dana 
I do manifest, I grow — but yeah, there's a cost.

11:51 Lauri 
Yeah. What else has it taken care of for you?

12:00 Dana 
I have a standing in this community. I've established myself in this community. I've established that I can do this and be in this community, and I can keep up and grow in the ways we're supposed to and the ways we're expected. So it's given me credibility.

12:24 Lauri 
Credibility in the tree farm of life.

12:30 Dana 
Yeah.

12:31 Lauri 
Okay, go ahead and shake it off. I'm going to invite Dana and I to do this now — to feel the... I just sank into myself. I've got a hand on my core. I can feel a height from my toes and my butt to the top of my head and beyond. I can feel the width of my shoulders, my hips, my knees, my feet. And then I can also feel front to back — there goes the back side of my body. And then the connection to the wants, the vision, the longing.

And then from there — what's it like to reflect on what that old tree farm shape gave you and cost you, from the centered Dana that you are right now? You fit in in the tree farm. You got standing within the tree farm. You did create things. You had this particular kind of energy that also burnt out.

13:54 Dana 
Yeah. Building on that — the other things it gave me in the tree farm: the credibility I got, I have influence, I can make an impact. And the world seems to much more readily give credibility to the tree farm compared to — the world does not know what to make of the other tree form.

So when I'm at a place where I need external validation, the tree farm gave me a lot of external validation. And the other tree form — I get some, but not a lot of external validation. It's more like: this feels like me. This feels like what I'm being called into. And it's hard to let go of that external validation. It's hard to let go of the credibility — the badge of honor of being successful on the tree farm.

15:12 Lauri 
Yeah. It did that job extremely well. It got you to a point where you have influence within the tree farm.

15:20 Dana 
Yeah.

15:23 Lauri 
What stood out to me envisioning the two is — if creating some kind of change in the world is part of what you want, you cannot do that from within tree farm. It was like a visceral version of the other tree, with the fluidity and the side to side — that Dana can create change. The other one fits in and has standing in the systems that exist.

16:02 Dana 
Yeah.

16:04 Lauri 
Which is awesome. And it's called an Untamed Leader Retreat. And it also feels like the longing to step fully into the more rounded, growing-out-of-rock, side-to-side tree Dana — it includes this calling. And underneath that is: because I want to be me. Because I want to be me. Tree farm is not as fully you. How does that resonate?

16:45 Dana 
It resonates very strongly. And the other thought that comes up — not that this is true, but the thought came up — in terms of: I really do care about making an impact in the world, and not just retreating into my own private Idaho, as the saying goes. And there's something about the dancing defiant joy tree in the woods — it's like it's out there by itself in the wilderness. It actually is in an area called the Clifty Wilderness, a designated wilderness here in our part of the world.

And something in me is saying — well, if you choose you don't want to be the tree farm anymore and you want to be the tree in the woods, is that retreating from the world? How do you make an impact in the world when you're off in the Clifty Wilderness dancing, even if it is joyful?

17:48 Dana 
And something in me is making this either/or — like, well, if you care about the world, then you've got to figure out how to live in the farm. If you want to just go do your own thing — and by the way, I can now, because financially and I'm of an age, I can walk away and do my own thing or not do anything. So I have that option. That is an option. But that's what scares me. That's what scares me.

18:21 Lauri 
Yeah. I'm curious — let's put on tree farm tree for a moment again.

18:28 Dana 
Okay.

18:33 Lauri 
What does tree farm tree want or need you to acknowledge?

18:43 Dana 
What's coming up is two different things that don't really go together. One is: we're expected to be a certain way here, expected to be a certain way. And then there is this — but is there the possibility of doing it differently?

19:05 Lauri 
So even tree farm tree — it lived up to those expectations beautifully. And then even tree farm tree, Dana, is curious about: is there another way? We did this. The arc is over on this. Go ahead and shake off tree farm tree again. And then feel defiant joy tree. What is Defiant Joy Tree Dana's perspective on what seemed like an either/or?

19:53 Dana 
It is something about — when you trust yourself to live here in this way, you can go wherever you want.

20:16 Lauri 
So that image is like — it's a moment in time, and that tree can go wherever. It could go communicate with the trees back in the tree farm, it can talk to birds flying in the air, wherever it wants.

20:33 Dana 
Yeah. And there's something about — it was a feeling, not a word so much — but about when I'm still in the world of the comparing and judging and wanting external validation, it's going to be hard to bring Defiant Joy Tree into Tree Farm World. But if I truly trust myself in the other form, and I don't need the external validation — it's like this is right for me, this is what is calling me — then I'm free to go where I want.

21:15 Lauri 
Yeah. And when you said that, it feels like — yay, I'm so glad that you got a picture of a tree that was out on its own. But it doesn't mean, oh my God, the poor tree is going to be out there on its own always and forever. It's like it's out there where it can feel itself, listen to itself, trust itself — because it's liberated itself from the tree farm physicality expectations. Which is different, and is what paves the way for defiant joy tree to go anywhere.

21:58 Dana 
Yeah. And you put your finger on another aspect of this. There's part of me that still holds this belief — like, yeah, when I'm out in the woods, it is the place I can feel, listen, and trust myself. It creates the conditions for that to happen and I respond. Stick me in tree farm and all of a sudden it's like I'm Cinderella and my coach just turned to the pumpkin again. It's like I shift. And so there's part of me that thinks I have to be in the conditions that I know liberate me — and doesn't trust that I can hold it without being in the wilderness conditions.

22:54 Lauri 
Yeah. And shake off Defiant Joy Tree and put on the hint of tree farm tree. What does tree farm tree want or need to hear in order to let Defiant Joy Tree run the show, even when other tree farm trees are around?

23:27 Dana 
Is it safe? That's what came up. Is it safe?

23:36 Lauri 
And let tree farm tree go. Feel Defiant Joy Tree. What is Defiant Joy Tree's message about safety?

24:00 Dana 
When you're present, you're safe.

24:08 Lauri 
Come back into tree farm tree and check in. Is there anything else that it wants or needs to hear?

24:24 Dana 
There's something about — but they don't want that. They don't want me to show up that way. They want me to show up this way. And so even if I feel safe enough to show up in the other way, that's not what they want.

24:41 Lauri 
Shake that off. And then feel defiant joy tree. What do you want? How do you want to show up?

25:08 Dana 
I want to be an expression of the ability to show up in many different ways that doesn't look like standing tall and straight and all falling in line. There is an adaptability. And there's also this honoring — we each have a different calling and an inner knowing, and trusting that is what we're supposed to live out, and modeling that for myself and for others. And there's something about — those who, back to what the tree farm said about they don't want it — those who are wanting this message, are ready for this message, will come. We'll be there.

26:04 Lauri 
Yeah. You can stay in Defiant Joy Tree if you'd like. I was hearing words in my head like "fuck them." And feeling like Defiant Joy Tree, Dana — there are many different ways to lead. There are many places to take your voice in the world, and it's a landscape, not a ladder — where keynotes and TED Talks are at the top and everybody else is less than, and you're all fighting for space on the keynote tree even if you don't want it. And the landscape is more like: how are each of us meant to use our voice? There's leading from the front, there's leading from within, there's leading from behind, there's leading from beside.

And this feels like Dana's unique blend of leading from within and from the front — because trees' roots are all connected. And there's the sense that some of the trees in the tree farm are going to be like, no. And some of the trees in the tree farm are going to be called by you going first. It's your way of leading from the front — which is: embody Defiant Joy Tree. Take your voice and your presence the places that you are called to go. And the ones who are ready will go, oh my God, that's possible. Like the movie Pleasantville just popped into my head — when they see that a color world is possible, everybody just starts... not everybody, some of the husbands are like, no, I can't do that.

I'm feeling myself called to come back around to the discernment and the decision making. Put on the hint of tree farm tree. How does tree farm tree make decisions?

28:38 Dana 
Tree farm tree makes decisions — there is a bit of: does that resonate? Is that something a strength of ours? Is it something we're interested in? So tree farm tree has that. And tree farm tree, wrapped around — I think that core is healthy — what are our gifts, what are our strengths, starting there. But the next layer out is something about: will it give me status and prestige? And there's a whole external validation layer that tree farm tree would be looking at too, that Defiant Joy Tree would not be looking at and would not pick something based on that.

29:30 Lauri 
Yeah. Okay, go ahead and shake off tree farm tree for a moment and feel your center. When you were talking from tree farm tree, I did feel — at first I felt like the whole upright length, and then eventually it became very head and out here, like this and out there. If you're fully in tree farm tree — which I don't think you have actually made a decision fully from tree farm tree in a while — but it's interesting to know. How does that resonate with what you felt?

30:14 Dana 
Very much. It's funny because before — like the fish in the water — it's like, what are you talking about, is there any other way to go here? But now it's like, oh yeah, it feels so interesting to be here and then out. Yeah, exactly what it is.

30:33 Lauri 
Yeah. And another interesting thing about tree farm tree is that the status and the stature did give it now a certain amount of — is that even interesting to me? Because I don't have to if it's not. Now, can you put on Defiant Joy? How does Defiant Joy discern, choose, make decisions?

31:07 Dana 
Energetically — it is first and foremost energetically. It resonates with the energy. And someone said the word frequency before. There's a frequency that it can tune into that tree farm tree can't tune into that frequency.

31:32 Lauri 
That frequency Dana is talking about — you have one too. Tree farm tree. Defiant joy tree. You know your versions of that, and you may know more after listening to and participating in this coaching, which one you've been living in more.

The question Dana was really asking, underneath all of it, is the same one most of us are sitting with: is it safe to be who I actually am?

When you're present, you're safe. Dana said that. And I don't think she was just talking to herself.

Take that with you. And if you want to go deeper and explore this kind of thing for yourself, come find me. Voice-matters.com — everything is there. And if you're feeling moved, if you thought of a friend or a colleague who would love an episode like this, please feel free to share it with them. I'll see you back here next time.